S.O.P. Minimum Ages

[Andrew]

I've skimmed over most of the topic, so sorry if I'm saying stuff that's already been said, but here are my views on things:

Age of adulthood: 16
Living in Britain, I’m used to 16, I think though this will depend on the min age for compulsory schooling. In the UK, High School is over at 16, you can either go to College and/or Uni, or you can get a Job. If compulsory Schooling is till 18, then you can quite happily have this at 18.

Decide how long you want your compulsory schooling then decide this. It will also have a direct link to minimum full time working ages. There is no point being able to work full time, or be considered an adult at 18 if you finish school at 16, and vice versa, there is no point being considered an adult at 16 if you’re forced into schooling until your 18.

This should be the age when you believe your citizens will be able to take full responsibility over their own lives.

-Operation of automobiles and motorcycles: 16-17 – Depends on when you set limits for adulthood. If you can work and be considered an adult at 16, then you should be able to drive to get to work. Public Transports an option, but driving is far easier.

-Limited operation of automobiles and motorcycles (learner’s permit): 15- I Agree

People will drive how they drive. If you have kids on the road, trained properly, it’ll discourage joy riders.

-Operation of motorized aquatic vehicles: 16 (under supervision, no minimum age) – I Agree

-Operation of motorized aerial vehicles: Adulthood – I Agree

-Limited operation of motorized aerial vehicles (learner’s permit): 15 – I Agree

-Purchase and unsupervised use of alcohol and tobacco: 15, to restrict something is to make it desirable. Studies have shown that the countries with the least problems with Alcohol abuse are the countries where the age limits are lower. Kids will get it if they want it, and in the UK, rather than have someone older buy it, the kids will just steal it. Make it part of the culture, and it will be less of a problem. In the UK, it is also Law that on private premises, under consent of your parents/guardian, you can drink from the Age of 5. This is a reasonable limit, as younger than that, any consumption can have serious effects on your health.

I don’t think that underage drinking in licensed premises should be permitted even with parental consent; it just leads to too many gray areas that could be exploited.

-Consent to sexual activity: 16 – I Agree

-Consent to marry: Adulthood – but consider making Adulthood, Consent to Marriage and Consent to Sexual Activity all the same age. Marriage and sex are both two very big, very adult choices, and to allow one before adulthood, and not the other, is demeaning to your citizens.

-Gambling: Adulthood – I Agree

-Legal full time employment: 16 - Again, I think this ties into the Adulthood Age limit. For Part Time employment, I think you should set an age limit of 13, and for particular jobs. Having no limits can lead to seedy scams being made in places that may not develop as morally as others, and schools/parents can be in cahoots, so the kid may not want to work, but if you have a corrupt teacher and a greedy parent, they could sign off on a child work permit, and force the child into working. It can lead to dark roads that you don’t want to veer down. Restrict what they can do and from what age, with full license to work at Adulthood.

Full time work should kick into effect from the time you are considered an Adult, and when you are legally allowed to leave compulsory Education.

Hope my opinions have been helpful

[Rook]

Well yes, compulsory schooling and adulthood go hand in hand. In England you get out of high school at sixteen, but in Japan don't you go to compulsory school until something like 20 or so? I still think 18 is a comfortable middle ground that fits nicely with all the other values on the table.

Restricting things does make it more desireable, which is why consumption of alcohol under the age of adulthood would not be illegal, simply the purchase. What this does is force an environment of responsible drinking habits under the supervision of an adult. If someone buys them the booze and they do something stupid, the adult has accepted the responsibility of those actions. If you buy booze for a kid, you have a vested interest in making sure the kid drinks and acts wisely. Will kids still drink unsupervised, buy beer on fake IDs and otherwise make a fool of themselves? Yes. Would they have to as much? No, because they have more options than current systems. Will a 15 year old buy his 13 year old buddies alcohol and do the same amount of stupid stuff with no opportunity for someone older and wiser to be part of the equation? Most definately. I feel it's a balance. As such, if the age of adulthood were to be lowered to 16 I would not be opposed to the drinking age following it. I feel the more things that are tied to the age of adulthood, instead of arbitrary milestones, the more streamlined the system is and the harder it is to find loopholes. Which leads me to one of the spots where I do disagree with myself on that fact.

The reason marriage is set at the age of adulthood is because marriage is a contract, and as such, only adults can enter into a contractual arrangement. The age for parental consent for a marriage is set at the age of personal consent. That age was set lower than adulthood (contrary to my prior 'streamlined' comments) to strike a balance between the purpose and execution of laws. Laws are designed to curb behavior that is considered unacceptable to society, not ensnare and punish hapless citizens. Sexual consent laws are in place to curb pedifilia, not sexual activity. It's not the government's place to decide how you conduct your sex life. It will provide as much information on what it believes is the safest, healthiest practices and make that information available, thus the three year stipulation. Those caveats are designed to protect the innocent. As much as streamlined is good, blanket laws can be oppressive. Most of these age restrictions, which are set at 18, have reasonable stipulations for those who are more progressive or mature, while still maintaining protection for the rest of society against the average.

[Rook]

I have gone through the thread and tracked everyone's endorsements of various points of view. In such a way I have manage to tally support without wasting time calling for a vote on things we've already expressed our opinions on. The following are those results. Nessa has yet to weight in and made the sentiment that she would off board. In black are issues that one vote could change. Everything else would require the change of an existing vote or two more votes to change as they are stated. I will send her a message to let her know that it's time for her decision. It is only fair to allow her the opportunity to contribute.

Issues classified as 'Unanimous' no not include abstainments. Anyone who did not contribute or make a definate or implied stance on an argument was not catalogued.

Note: 'With Permit' or 'Permitted' means that an actual permit must be issued, which may or may not involve paperwork, permissions, signatures or tests to recieve. In most, but not all cases, being permitted also required supervision from a license adult while the activity is being performed. 'Supervision' refers to the necessity for an adult's presence, without documentation required on the part of the minor.

Adulthood - 3 to 1: age 18

age 18 - Their Majesties and the Countess Mira
age 16 - The Mysterious Andrew

Driving - Unanimous: age 17

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira, Artz and Andrew.

Driving with Permit - Unanimous: age 15

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira, Artz and Andrew.

Boating - 4 to 1: age 16

age 16 - Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Andrew.
age 17 - Artz

Boating Under Supervision - 4 to 1: No minimum age

No minimum age - Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Andrew.
age 15 - Artz

Flying - Unanimous: Adulthood

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira, Artz and Andrew.

Flying with Permit - 3 to 2: age 15

age 15 with Permit - His Majesty, the Countess Mira and Andrew.
No minimum age Under Supervision - Her Majesty and April (submitted off-board.)

Purchase and Unsupervised Use of Controlled Substances - 3 to 1 to 1: Adulthood

Adulthood - Their Majesties and the Countess Mira
age 21 - Artz
age 15 - Andrew

Supervised Use and Consumption of Controlled Substances - 3 to 1: No minimum without restriction.

No minimum age without restriction - Their Majesties and the Countess Mira
No minimum age with restrictions on where supervised consumption is authorized - Andrew

Consent to Sexual Activity - Unanimous: age 16

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Andrew.

Marriage - Unanimous: Adulthood

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Andrew.

Marriage with Parental Consent - Unanimous: age 16

Their Majesties and the Countess Mira.

Gambling - Unanimous: Adulthood

Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Andrew.

Full Time Employment - 4 to 1: Adulthood

Adulthood - Their Majesties, the Countess Mira and Artz.
age 16 - Andrew

Part Time Permitted Employment - 3 to 1 to 1: No minimum age

No minimum age - Their Majesties and the Countess Mira
age 15 - Artz
age 13 - Andrew

Personal Comments:
There may be some misunderstanding in the debate on underage flying that could be cleared up by the line created by the above distinction between permit and supervision. With a permit, the licensed operator only needs to be in the vehicle. In a car they can be in the passenger seat, or the back seat (hopefully not the trunk.) So in the piloting debate, a permitted pilot would be free to operate the plane even if the licensed pilot was using the toilet in the back of the plane. On the otherhand a supervised pilot would have to be under direct control and observation during the entire time they were flying, such as in the pilot's lap or in the co-pilot's chair of a dual operated console.

I hate to make things more complicated, but because of the unique nature of how planes work, a solution to the impass is to use both opinions. Allow anyone, under direct supervision of the licensed pilot, to fly and set the minimum age for obtaining a permit (thus allowing the licensed pilot to take a nap on a long flight) to age 15.

[Rook]

Enough time has passed. By royal decree, I am proclaiming as law that:

The age of Adulthood is 18 years of age.
To obtain a license to drive one must be 17 years of age.
To obtain a permit to drive one must be 15 years of age.
To independently operate a boat one must be 16 years of age. An adult must supervise anyone younger.
To obtain a license to pilot one must be an adult. An adult must supervise anyone younger.
To obtain a permit to pilot one must be 15.
To purchase, use and consume tobacco, alcohol and other controlled substances one must be an adult. An adult must supervise anyone younger.
One may consent to sexual activity at sixteen. Anyone younger than sixteen cannot consent with anyone more than three years older than them.
One may consent to marry when an adult or at sixteen with parental consent.
One must be an adult to gamble.
Only adults may hold full time employment.
Part time employment is allowed at any age, minors require a permit endorsed by their parents, the employer and their school.

Required Definitions so the above require no interpertation:

-Supervision defines the direct control and observation of an adult. Minors permitted to operate a vehicle cannot supervise younger minors. Supervision is impossible if the adult cannot take direct control of the activity at a moment's notice.
-Permit defines the process of obtaining a document that can show competency and trust from the issuing authority. It may or may not require testing, permissions or practical examinations depending on the activity being permitted. The permit must be maintained on their person while performing the permitted activity.
-Parent / parental implies 'parent and or legal gardian.'
-Private vs. public vehicular specification: The permit and licensing requirements for various vehicles refer only to public areas. On privatly held lands these laws do not apply. All other age laws apply to private property.